ReconsiDer Tidbits

Johnson, DEA Chief Talk Dope
By Leslie Linthicum
Albuquerque Journal Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 11, 2001


Two baby boomer guys, children of the 1960s, got together in Albuquerque on Monday to talk about drugs.

But Gary Johnson, New Mexico's governor, and Asa Hutchinson, administrator of the nation's Drug Enforcement Administration  -  both trim Republicans with blue suits and conservative haircuts  -  could not have been farther apart on the direction the country's drug policies should take.

In an hourlong national radio debate, Johnson, a 48-year-old former pot smoker, hammered home the message that has become his crusade: Marijuana is not as harmful as alcohol and government resources are wasted in arresting and jailing pot smokers who otherwise do not break the law.

"I believe the war on drugs is an absolute, miserable failure," Johnson said.

Hutchinson, 50, and a former federal prosecutor who says he has never smoked a joint, faced a somewhat hostile crowd at the University of New Mexico's Continuing Education Center as he argued that marijuana use is harmful to individuals and society and that criminal penalties are the best approach to reducing use.

"Drug use is harmful," Hutchinson said. "I don't think you discourage use by saying we're not going to make it a criminal offense."

The debate, "Directing America's Drug War: Which Way To A Safer Society?", was staged and recorded for National Public Radio's "Justice Talking" program. It will air at 11 a.m. on Oct. 7 on KUNM, 89.9 FM, and other public radio stations nationwide. It also will be broadcast on C-SPAN.

The auditorium at the Continuing Education Center was full Monday, with more than 300 people in attendance. The crowd ranged from dark-suited DEA agents to pony-tailed men wearing bib overalls and sandals. But it weighed heavily toward Johnson's message of leniency.

Johnson was cheered repeatedly and Hutchinson was booed several times, despite NPR host Margot Adler's warnings that crowd responses were not welcome during the taping.

Johnson drew laughs when he lost his train of thought in the middle of an answer and won loud applause when he said, "The government assumes that everyone who smokes marijuana belongs in rehab. It's just not true."

Johnson's message  -  that marijuana, hard drugs, tobacco and alcohol hamper performance and are "bad choices" but should not be criminal offenses  -  has captured national attention.

The governor, a Libertarian-leaning former businessman, favors decriminalizing possession of small amounts of marijuana. He would establish government-run clinics to dispense heroin and cocaine to addicts and run needle-exchange programs. He argues for counseling rather than jail time for possession of heroin and cocaine.

Hutchinson, newly appointed as the country's top drug cop, believes in treatment and education as an option for courts dealing with first-time marijuana offenders. But he takes a hard line on criminal penalties for harder drugs and continued commitment to the country's attack on drug trafficking.

The men disagreed on fundamental approaches to drug use and enforcement.

On the so-called "war on drugs," the federal government's 20-year-old attack on drug importation and trafficking, Hutchinson said stemming the flow will reduce supply, and the lack of availability will reduce use.

Johnson called interdiction efforts a failure.

"This is pissing in the wind," the governor said. "We're not having an impact. We're not stemming the influx of illegal drugs into this country."

On removing criminal penalties for marijuana use, Johnson said it is absurd to believe more people will smoke pot if it is legal.

Hutchinson said: "I don't think you reduce harm by legalizing another harmful substance. It is illogical."

Johnson has said he smoked pot in high school and used cocaine on occasion during college and into his 20s. He quit using drugs in his 20s and no longer drinks alcohol. Now a dedicated athlete, he eschews caffeine and rarely eats sugar.

Hutchinson said following the debate that he never tried marijuana even though he is of the generation that embraced a relaxed attitude toward drug experimentation.

 Copyright 2001 Albuquerque Journal